Roth 401k Versus Traditional 401k Considerations
By Jason Watson, CPA
Posted Monday, December 30, 2024
Two arguments abound when considering a pre-tax 401k contribution. The argument goes like this- your retirement tax rate will be lower than your wage-earning tax rate. For those in the 32%, 35% or 37% marginal tax brackets, this is likely true. However, those earning big bucks probably continue to earn big bucks during retirement from investments, real estate, consulting, etc.
The other argument is about the free loan from the IRS. If you contribute $31,000 ($23,500 + $7,500 catchup for the 2025 tax year) to your pre-tax 401k and you are in the 32% marginal tax bracket, you just put $9,920 in your pocket ($31,000 x 32%). Another way to look at this is that $31,000 only took $21,080 in cash.
Sure, at some point the IRS wants it back when you withdraw it during retirement and will tax the original contribution plus whatever you earned on it. But this might fall into the let’s worry about next time, next time category.
As such, the second argument is about using the IRS’s money to build additional wealth. You take your $9,920 and do something good with it. Yeah, this argument sort of works. $9,920 annually might not move the needles much on your wealth building strategies. You would need $9,920 x 10 years at 6% rate of return just to afford a down payment on an average rental property.
Rather, most wealth is built with after-tax dollars. The leveraging of the IRS free loan concept sounds great on paper until you gain perspective on the size of the lever.
Another side argument is completely avoiding state income taxes by reducing your state income and therefore income tax with 401k contributions during your wage-earning years, and then establish residency in a tax-free or a tax-friendly state during retirement.
The theories above make sense; however, we ask a basic question- is it easier to pay taxes during your wage-earning years or during retirement? Sure, it depends how much you withdraw during retirement. Please consider that to spend $150,000 during retirement, you might have to withdraw upwards of $180,000 to account for the income taxes.
During your wage-earning years you might have the ability to work a little harder to pay for taxes now. Pick up an extra shift. Close an extra deal. Get a few more tax returns out of the door if you are a tax accountant. Whatever it takes, right? During your retirement years, especially mid-70s or older, you pay taxes with retirement savings (or at least it feels like you do depending on your cash sources).
Also, keep in mind that your primary objective in life is to build wealth. Your second objective is to save taxes, and what a lot of people forget about is saving taxes is not done in a vacuum or just one year; it is done over your entire lifetime.
Finally, consider that the law of 72 suggests that your investments will double every 8 years. Huh? The average rate of return for the S&P 500 is 9.2% since inception. If you take 72 and divide it by 9 (the rate of return) this equals 8, and suggests that your investment will double in 8 years. Where are we going with this? If you have 2 or 3 “doubles” coming up, to have that growth be tax-free upon retirement might be nice.
As mentioned elsewhere, WCG CPAs & Advisors recommends financial planning by a qualified planner to determine your objectives and model your particular scenario.
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Taxpayers Guide to LLCs and S Corps
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- Basic Business Entities
- Sole Proprietorship
- Single Member Limited Liability Company
- Multi-Member Limited Liability Company
- Partnerships
- Being Considered a Passive Business Owner
- Rental Partnerships
- C Corporations
- Personal Service Corporation
- Professional Corporations and LLCs
- S Corporations
- Section 199A Qualified Business Income Tax Deduction
- S Corp Versus LLC
- LLC Popularity (Hype)
- Formation of an LLC or S Corp
- Nevada Fallacy of an LLC (or Delaware or Wyoming!)
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- Your Spouse as a Partner (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
- Family Partners
- Real Estate Holding Company and Operating Company
- Parent-Child Arrangement (Income Flows "Up")
- Parent-Child Arrangement (Income Flows "Down")
- Multi-Member LLC That Issues Invoices
- Things to Work Through with Multiple Entities
- Recap of Benefits with Multiple Entities
- State Apportionment with Multiple Entities
- California Multi-Member LLC S Corp Twist
- C Corporation as Mothership
- Holding Company versus Management Company
- Pure LLC Holding Company
- Economic versus Equity Interests
- Structuring Deals with Angel Investors
- ESOPs and S Corporations
- Another Employee Ownership Situation
- Medical C Corp
- Fleischer Tax Court Case
- Joint Ventures
- Loans or Capital Injections
- Using a Self-Directed IRA to Buy a Rental, Start A Business
- Operating Agreements
- Exit Plans, Business Succession
- Liability Protection Fallacy of an LLC
- Charging Orders
- Using a Trust in Your Formation Considerations
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- Avoiding or Reducing Self-Employment SE Taxes
- Tax Savings with Health Insurance
- S Corp Hard Money Facts, Net Savings
- Ancillary Benefits with S Corporations
- Officer Compensation with Solo 401k Plan Deferral
- W-2 Converted to 1099
- Net Investment Income, Medicare Surtax and S Corps
- Being a Passive Business Owner
- Three Types of Income
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- Chapter 4 Introduction
- Additional Accounting Costs
- Additional Payroll Taxes
- SEP IRA Limitations
- Trapped Assets
- Distributing Profits, Multiple Owners
- Other W-2 Income
- State Business Taxes (Not Just Income Taxes)
- Deducting Losses, Trapped Cash
- Distributions in Excess of Shareholder Basis
- Stock Classes
- Vesting and Expanding Ownership
- Bad Loans to the S Corp
- Social Security Basis
- Payroll Taxes on Children
- C Corp to S Corp Problems
- Going Concern
- Recap of S Corp Downsides
- Growing Business, Debt Service
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- Chapter 5 Intro
- Chapter 5 Disclaimer
- Wayfair Case Part 1
- Nexus Theory
- Constitutional and Legislative Standards
- Sales and Use Tax, Income Tax
- Physical and Economic Presence, Nexus Attached
- Wayfair Case Part 2
- Services and Tangible Personal Property (TPP)
- Costs of Performance, Market-Based Approach
- Allocation and Throwback
- FBA, Drop Shipments, Trailing Nexus Revisited
- Recap of State Tax Issues
- State Tax Issues and Nexus
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- Formation (Election) of an S-Corp
- Electing S-Corp Filing Status, Retroactive for 2025
- Another Option, Dormant S Corp
- Missing Payroll, Now What
- Mid-Year Payroll
- Nuts and Bolts of the S Corp Election
- Ineffective S Corp Elections
- S Corp Equity Section
- Terminating S Corp Election
- Distributed Assets
- 5 Year Rule
- Life Cycle of an S Corporation
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- Section 199A S Corp Considerations
- Calculating the Qualified Business Income Deduction
- Section 199A Defining Terms
- Specified Service Trade or Business (SSTB) Definitions
- Trade or Business of Performing Services as an Employee
- Services or Property Provided to an SSTB
- Section 199A Deduction Decision Tree
- Section 199A Reasonable Compensation
- Section 199A Pass-Thru Salary Optimization
- Cost of Increasing Shareholder Salary
- Negative Qualified Business Income
- Section 199A Rental Property Deduction
- Qualified Property Anti-Abuse
- Aggregation of Multiple Businesses
- Section 199A W-2 Safe Harbors
- Additional Section 199A Reporting on K-1
- Converting Employees to Contractors and Anti-Abuse
- Section 199A Frequently Asked Questions
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- S Corp Section 199A Deduction Examples
- Section 199A Side by Side Comparisons
- Section 199A Basic Comparisons
- Section 199A Health Insurance Comparison
- Section 199A 200k Comparison
- Section 199A 250k Comparison
- Section 199A Specified Service Business Comparison Part 1
- Section 199A Specified Service Business Comparison Part 2
- Section 199A Phaseout
- Section 199A Recap
- Section 199A Actual Tax Returns Comparison
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- Chapter 9 Introduction
- IRS S Corp Stats
- Reasonable S Corp Salary Theory
- IRS Revenue Rulings and Fact Sheet 2008-25
- Tax Court Cases for Reasonable Salary
- Risk Analysis to Reasonable Shareholder Salary
- Reasonable Salary Labor Data
- Assembled Workforce or Developed Process Effect
- RCReports
- W-2 Converted to 1099 Reasonable Salary
- S Corp Salary Starting Point
- Multiple Shareholders Payroll Split
- Additional S Corp Salary Considerations
- Reasonable Salary Recap
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- Chapter 10 Introduction
- Costs of Operating an S Corp
- New S Corp Puppy, What Do I Do Now
- Accounting Method
- 1099-NEC Issued to Your SSN
- Take Money Out of the S Corp
- Processing S Corp Payroll
- Minimum Payroll with December Bonus
- Taking Shareholder Distributions
- Reclassify Shareholder Distributions
- Shareholder Distributions as Reimbursements
- Accountable Plan Expense Reimbursements
- Accountable Plan Requirements
- S Corp Tax Return Preparation
- Distributions in Excess of Basis
- Minimize Tax or Maximize Value (Economic Benefit)
- Tracking Fringe Benefits
- Other Tricks of the Trade with S Corps
- Adding Your Spouse to Payroll
- Chap 10 - Comingling of Money
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- Chapter 11 Introduction
- Four Basics to Warm Up To
- Section 199A Deductions – Pass Through Tax Breaks
- 185 Business Deductions You Cannot Take
- Depreciation
- Small Business Tax Deductions Themes
- Value of a Business Tax Deduction
- Deductions the IRS Cannot Stand
- Automobiles and LLCs, S Corps
- Business Owned Automobile
- Section 179 and Bonus Depreciation
- You Own the Automobile, Get Reimbursed By The Mile
- You Own the Automobile, Take Mileage Deduction
- You Own the Automobile, Lease Back to Your Company
- Automobile Decision Tree
- Home Office Deduction
- Tax-Free Rental of Your Home
- Tax Home
- Business Travel Deduction
- Deducting Business Meals
- Sutter Rule
- Cohan Rule
- Capital Leases versus Operating Leases
- Putting Your Kids on the Payroll
- Educational Assistance with an S-Corp - Section 127
- Summary of Small Business Tax Deductions
- Business Tax Return Preparation
- Comingling of Money
- Reducing Taxes
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- Retirement Planning Within Your Small Business
- Self Employed Retirement Plan Basics
- Retirement Questions to Ask
- Tax Savings and Deferrals
- Using a 401k in Your Small Business Retirement Options
- The Owners-Only 401k Plan
- Having Staff with a Solo 401k Plan
- Self-Directed 401k Plans
- Company-Sponsored 401k Plan
- 401k Plan Safe Harbor Provision
- Roth 401k Plans
- Roth 401k Versus Traditional 401k Considerations
- Two 401k Plans
- Rolling Old 401k Plans or IRAs into Your Small Business 401k Plan
- 401k Loans and Life Insurance
- 401k Plans and Roth IRA Conversions
- Turbo Charged 401k Plans
- SIMPLE 401k
- SEP IRA
- SEP IRA, Roth IRAs and the Roth Conversion
- Controlled Groups
- Owner Only 401k Plans in MMLLC Environment
- Spousal Attribution and Controlled Groups
- Non-Qualified Deferred Compensation Plan
- Exotic Stuff
- Expatriates or Expat Tax Deferral Planning
- Small Business Retirement Planning Recap
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- Disclosure and Updates
- Gaming the HSA System
- Health Savings Accounts (HSAs)
- Health Care Summary
- Long-Term Care
- Multiple Employees
- One Person Show or Husband-Wife Team, S Corporation
- Section 105 Health Reimbursement Arrangement (HRA)
- Section 125 Cafeteria Plans and Flex Spending (FSA)
- Sole Proprietors and Single Member LLCs
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Archive
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