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You are here: Home > Taxpayers Guide to LLCs and S Corps > Chap 4 - The 185 Reasons to Not Have an S Corp or LLC > Distributing Profits, Multiple Owners

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  • Taxpayers Guide to LLCs and S Corps

    • Introduction

      • About the Author
      • Progressive Updates
      • Introduction Disclaimer
      • Shameless Self-Promotion
      • Book Introduction
      • Quick Reference 2021
      • Quick Reference 2022
    • Chap 1 - Business Entities, LLCs

      • Basic Business Entities
      • Sole Proprietorship
      • Single Member Limited Liability Company
      • Multi-Member Limited Liability Company
      • Partnerships
      • C Corporations
      • Professional Corporations and LLCs
      • S Corporations
      • Section 199A Qualified Business Income Tax Deduction
      • S Corp Versus LLC
      • LLC Popularity (Hype)
      • Formation of an LLC or S Corp
      • Nevada Fallacy of an LLC
    • Chap 2 - Customized Entity Structures

      • Your Spouse as a Partner (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
      • Family Partners
      • Holding Company and Operating Company
      • Parent-Child Arrangement (Income Flows "Up")
      • Parent-Child Arrangement (Income Flows "Down")
      • Multi-Member LLC That Issues Invoices
      • Things to Work Through with Multiple Entities
      • Recap of Benefits with Multiple Entities
      • State Apportionment with Multiple Entities
      • California Multi-Member LLC S Corp Twist
      • Economic versus Equity Interests
      • Structuring Deals with Angel Investors
      • ESOPs and S Corporations
      • Another Employee Ownership Situation
      • Medical C Corp
      • Fleischer Tax Court Case
      • Joint Ventures
      • Loans or Capital Injections
      • Using a Trust in Your Formation Considerations
      • Operating Agreements
      • Exit Plans, Business Succession
      • Liability Protection Fallacy of an LLC
      • Charging Orders
      • Using a Self-Directed IRA to Buy a Rental, Start A Business
    • Chap 3 - S Corporation Benefits

      • Avoiding or Reducing Self-Employment SE Taxes
      • Tax Savings with Health Insurance
      • S Corp Hard Money Facts, Net Savings
      • Officer Compensation with Solo 401k Plan Deferral
      • W-2 Converted to 1099
      • Net Investment Income, Medicare Surtax and S Corps
      • Three Types of Income
    • Chap 4 - The 185 Reasons to Not Have an S Corp or LLC

      • Chapter 4 Introduction
      • Additional Accounting Costs
      • Additional Payroll Taxes
      • SEP IRA Limitations
      • Trapped Assets
      • Distributing Profits, Multiple Owners
      • Other W-2 Income
      • State Business Taxes (Not Just Income Taxes)
      • Deducting Losses
      • Distributions in Excess of Shareholder Basis
      • Stock Classes
      • Vesting and Expanding Ownership
      • Bad Loans to the S Corp
      • Social Security Basis
      • Payroll Taxes on Children
      • C Corp to S Corp Problems
      • Going Concern
      • Recap of S Corp Downsides
      • Growing Business, Debt Service
    • Chap 5 - State Nexus Problems

      • Chapter 5 Introduction
      • Chapter 5 Disclaimer
      • Wayfair Case Part 1
      • Nexus Theory
      • Constitutional and Legislative Standards
      • Sales and Use Tax, Income Tax
      • Physical and Economic Presence, Nexus Attached
      • Wayfair Case Part 2
      • Services and Tangible Personal Property (TPP)
      • Costs of Performance, Market-Based Approach
      • Allocation and Throwback
      • FBA, Drop Shipments, Trailing Nexus Revisited
      • Recap of State Tax Issues
      • State Tax Issues and Nexus
    • Chap 6 - S Corporation Election

      • Formation (Election) of an S-Corp
      • Electing S-Corp Filing Status, Retroactive for 2022
      • Another Option, Dormant S Corp
      • Missing Payroll, Now What
      • Mid-Year Payroll
      • Nuts and Bolts of the S Corp Election
      • Ineffective S Corp Elections
      • S Corp Equity Section
      • Terminating S Corp Election
      • Distributed Assets
      • 5 Year Rule
      • Life Cycle of an S Corporation
    • Chap 7 - Section 199A Deduction Analysis

      • Section 199A S Corp Considerations
      • Calculating the Qualified Business Income Deduction
      • Section 199A Defining Terms
      • Specified Service Trade or Business (SSTB) Definitions
      • Trade or Business of Performing Services as an Employee
      • Services or Property Provided to an SSTB
      • Section 199A Deduction Decision Tree
      • Section 199A Reasonable Compensation
      • Section 199A Pass-Thru Salary Optimization
      • Cost of Increasing Shareholder Salary
      • Section 199A Rental Property Deduction
      • Negative Qualified Business Income
      • Qualified Property Anti-Abuse
      • Aggregation of Multiple Businesses
      • Section 199A W-2 Safe Harbors
      • Additional Section 199A Reporting on K-1
      • Section 199A Frequently Asked Questions
    • Chap 8 - Section 199A Examples and Comparisons

      • S Corp Section 199A Deduction Examples
      • Section 199A Side by Side Comparisons
      • Section 199A Basic Comparisons
      • Section 199A Health Insurance Comparison
      • Section 199A 200k Comparison
      • Section 199A 250k Comparison
      • Section 199A Specified Service Business Comparison Part 1
      • Section 199A Specified Service Business Comparison Part 2
      • Section 199A Phaseout
      • Section 199A Recap
      • Section 199A Actual Tax Returns Comparison
    • Chap 9 - Reasonable Shareholder Salary

      • IRS S Corp Stats
      • Reasonable S Corp Salary Theory
      • IRS Revenue Rulings and Fact Sheet 2008-25
      • Tax Court Cases for Reasonable Salary
      • Risk Analysis to Reasonable Shareholder Salary
      • Reasonable Salary Labor Data
      • Assembled Workforce or Developed Process Effect
      • RCReports
      • W-2 Converted to 1099 Reasonable Salary
      • S Corp Salary Starting Point
      • Multiple Shareholders Payroll Split
      • Additional S Corp Salary Considerations
      • Reasonable Salary Recap
    • Chap 10 - Operating Your S Corp

      • Chapter 10 Introduction
      • Costs of Operating an S Corp
      • New S Corp Puppy, What Do I Do Now
      • Accounting Method
      • 1099-NEC Issued to Your SSN
      • Take Money Out of the S Corp
      • Processing S Corp Payroll
      • Taking Shareholder Distributions
      • Reclassify Shareholder Distributions
      • Accountable Plan Expense Reimbursements
      • Accountable Plan Requirements
      • Shareholder Distributions as Reimbursements
      • S Corp Tax Return Preparation
      • Distributions in Excess of Basis
      • Minimize Tax or Maximize Value (Economic Benefit)
      • Tracking Fringe Benefits
      • Other Tricks of the Trade with S Corps
      • Adding Your Spouse to Payroll
      • Chap 10 - Comingling of Money
    • Chap 11 - Tax Deductions, Fringe Benefits

      • Chapter 11 Introduction
      • Four Basics to Warm Up To
      • Section 199A Deductions – Pass Through Tax Breaks
      • 185 Business Deductions You Cannot Take
      • Depreciation
      • Small Business Tax Deductions Themes
      • Value of a Business Tax Deduction
      • Deductions the IRS Cannot Stand
      • Automobiles and LLCs, S Corps
      • Business Owned Automobile
      • Section 179 and Bonus Depreciation
      • You Own the Automobile, Get Reimbursed By The Mile
      • You Own the Automobile, Take Mileage Deduction
      • You Own the Automobile, Lease Back to Your Company
      • Automobile Decision Tree
      • Home Office Deduction
      • Tax-Free Rental of Your Home
      • Tax Home
      • Business Travel Deduction
      • Deducting Business Meals
      • Sutter Rule
      • Cohan Rule
      • Capital Leases versus Operating Leases
      • Putting Your Kids on the Payroll
      • Educational Assistance with an S-Corp - Section 127
      • Summary of Small Business Tax Deductions
      • Comingling of Money
      • Reducing Taxes
    • Chap 12 - Retirement Planning

      • Retirement Planning Within Your Small Business
      • Self Employed Retirement Plan Basics
      • Retirement Questions to Ask
      • Tax Savings and Tax Deferrals
      • Using a 401k in Your Small Business Retirement Options
      • The Owners-Only 401k Plan
      • Having Staff with a Solo 401k Plan
      • Self-Directed 401k Plans
      • Traditional 401k (A Company Sponsored Plan)
      • 401k Plan Safe Harbor Provision
      • 401k Plans with Roth Option (Roth 401k)
      • Two 401k Plans
      • Rolling Old 401k Plans or IRAs into Your Small Business 401k Plan
      • 401k Loans and Life Insurance
      • 401k Plans and Roth IRA Conversions
      • Turbo Charged 401k Plans
      • SIMPLE 401k
      • SEP IRA
      • SEP IRA, Roth IRAs and the Roth Conversion
      • Controlled Groups
      • Owner Only 401k Plans in MMLLC Environment
      • Non-Qualified Deferred Compensation Plan
      • Exotic Stuff
      • Expatriates or Expat Tax Deferral Planning
      • Small Business Retirement Planning Recap
      • Personal Defined Benefit Plan
    • Epilogue

      • WCG Fee Structure
      • More About WCG
      • Consultative Approach
      • Core Competencies
      • No BS
      • Expectations of Our Clients
      • Final Words
      • Tax Consultation Business Advising, S Corp Consult
    • Chap xx - Health Care

      • Disclosure and Updates
      • Gaming the HSA System
      • Health Care Summary
      • Health Savings Accounts (HSAs)
      • Long-Term Care
      • Multiple Employees
      • One Person Show or Husband-Wife Team, S Corporation
      • Section 105 Health Reimbursement Arrangement (HRA)
      • Section 125 Cafeteria Plans and Flex Spending (FSA)
      • Sole Proprietors and Single Member LLCs
    • Chap yy - Business Valuations, Sale, Exit Planning

      • Business Valuation Techniques
      • Buy-Sell Agreements
      • Deal Structure
      • Debt Service
      • Exit Plans, Succession
      • Purchase Price Allocation
    • Chap zz - Other S Corp Thoughts

      • 1099 Income as Other Income, No Self-Employment (SE) Taxes
      • Audit Rates and Risks with an S-Corp
      • Recap of S-Corps
      • Rental Losses with an S-Corp
      • Rentals Owned by an LLC Fallacy
      • W-2 or 1099-MISC That Is The Question
  • Expat and Expatriate KB

    • Expat FAQs

      • Are there any downsides to claiming the foreign earned income exclusion?
      • Are there exceptions to the bona fide residence or physical presence tests?
      • As an ExPat, do I need to file a State tax return?
      • Can I deduct mortgage interest paid on my foreign home?
      • Do I have to pass the same test each year?
      • Does voting through an absentee ballot mess up my bona fide foreign residency?
      • How do fluctuating currency values affect my taxes?
      • How do I handle my foreign rental property?
      • How do I qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion?
      • How do moving expenses affect my exclusion?
      • How do partial years work with the foreign earned income exclusion?
      • How do tax treaties affect my ExPat situation?
      • How does the foreign housing exclusion or deduction work?
      • If I am a self-employed ExPat, what taxes am I responsible for?
      • If I don't qualify for the housing deduction, can I still deduct expenses?
      • May I still make contributions to my IRA as an ExPat?
      • What amount can I deduct for foreign earned income exclusion?
      • What happens if my host country has a form of social security?
      • What is a tax home or abode, and how do they relate to each other?
      • What is considered foreign earned income?
      • What is foreign earned income exclusion?
      • What is the bona fide residence test?
      • What is the difference between foreign tax credit and deduction?
      • What is the physical presence test?
  • Rental Property KB

    • Rentals FAQs

      • Can I claim my residence as a rental, sell it for a loss and deduct the loss?
      • Can I deduct internet expenses?
      • Can I deduct my cell phone charges?
      • Can I deduct the taxes associated with public improvements?
      • Can I rent out half a duplex or a room in my house?
      • Do I need receipts for my rental expenses?
      • Do rental properties offer good tax sheltering?
      • How are repairs and improvements different?
      • How do I handle my foreign rental property?
      • How do passive loss limitations affect me?
      • I purchased a rental property last year. What closing costs can I deduct?
      • If I don't have any rental income can I still claim a loss?
      • If I move back into my rental, how does that work?
      • If my employer provides a cell phone, is that income?
      • Is depreciating my rental a good thing?
      • My rental sale was a huge loss. What can I do?
      • Rentals Owned by an LLC Fallacy
      • What are tax issues with an LLC owning a rental property?
      • What are the exceptions to rental activities?
      • What are the rules on a home office deduction?
      • What is active participation versus material participation?
      • What is considered rental income?
      • What rental property expenses can I deduct?
    • Real Estate Pros

      • Are rental activities always passive activities?
      • Are there downsides to the real estate professional designation?
      • Are there specific material participation tests for real estate professionals?
      • Do I need to group my rental activities together?
      • How do I record the hours spent as a real estate professional?
      • If I meet the 750-hour test, do I also meet the 500-hour material participation test?
      • What activities count and don't count?
      • What are some of the IRS tricks to deny my real estate professional designation?
      • What are some of the tax court cases for real estate professionals?
      • What are the general tests for material participation?
      • What is active participation versus material participation?
      • What is the definition of real estate professional?
      • Why designate myself as a real estate professional?
  • Other Tax Information KB

    • Audits

      • Can I ignore an IRS notice or claim I never received it?
      • How can I pay my taxes or my notice of deficiency?
      • How can I prepare for my face to face or interview field audit?
      • How do I appeal the collections of unpaid taxes?
      • How does a joint return get handled during an audit?
      • How does bankruptcy affect my unpaid taxes?
      • How much is interest and penalty on taxes owed?
      • How should I respond to an IRS notice or letter?
      • What are my chances of being audited?
      • What are some of the types of IRS notices and letters?
      • What can the IRS do if I don't pay my taxes- what is the collections process?
      • What causes or triggers an IRS audit?
      • What if I cannot pay my taxes?
      • What IRS publications deal with audits?
      • What is the appeals process?
      • What is the period of limitations for an audit?
      • What types of audits could I face?
      • Who can be with me at my IRS audit or conference?
    • Charitable Contributions

      • Are there ways to earmark money for an individual?
      • Do I need receipts for my donations?
      • Does deducting charitable contributions cause an audit?
      • How do I determine the value of my donation?
      • What are some of the donations I can deduct?
      • What are some other charitable deductions?
      • What are the limits of my donations?
      • Who qualifies as a charity?
      • Why give to charities?
    • Education, Tuition Deductions

      • Are Educational Savings Accounts Worth It
      • Are There Tax Breaks for Going to College
      • Are There Tax Savings When My Employer Pays for My Education
      • Can I deduct the cost of sports, games or hobbies while in college?
      • IRAs and Savings Bonds To Help With Higher Education Costs
      • What College Expenses Can I Deduct From My Income
      • What constitutes a full-time student for tax purposes?
    • Homes and Real Estate FAQs

      • Can I deduct the loss on my primary residence?
      • Can I deduct the taxes associated with public improvements?
      • Can I exclude the gain on my home sale?
      • How does a Federal Disaster affect my casualty loss?
      • My home was destroyed- what deduction can I take? How do casualty losses work?
      • The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act and Debt Cancellation
      • What are the rules on a home office deduction?
      • What is Cancellation of Debt? Is it taxable income?
    • Medical, Health Insurance

      • What are qualified medical expenses?
      • Why can't I deduct health insurance premiums?
    • Mortgages, Bad Debts

      • Can I deduct a bad debt on my tax return?
      • Can I deduct the loss on my primary residence?
      • Is cancellation of debt always taxable?
      • The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act and Debt Cancellation
      • What is Cancellation of Debt? Is it taxable income?
    • Recordkeeping

      • Are there specific records I need to keep?
      • Do I need receipts for my expenses?
      • How does proper recordkeeping affect my audit results?
      • How long do I have to keep records?
      • How should I maintain my tax records?
      • What are the requirements for mileage records?
      • Why should I keep tax records?
    • General Tax Questions

      • Can I deduct internet expenses?
      • Can I deduct my cell phone charges?
      • If my employer provides a cell phone, is that income?
      • Tax Brackets Misconceptions- Should I earn more money?
      • What is the marriage penalty and how does it affect our tax returns?
  • Small Business KB

    • Small Biz FAQs

      • Hobby Versus Business

        • 3 out of 5 Test
        • Hobby Versus Business Testing
        • Philosophy of Business Losses
        • Private Track Coach Deducts Business Losses for Eight Years, Court Says OK
        • WCG (formerly Watson CPA Group) Philosophy on Hobby Losses
      • Independent Contractors

        • Behavioral Control
        • Colorado's Criteria for Contractor Status
        • Employee or Independent Contractor
        • Employee or Independent Contractor Status
        • Financial Control
        • IRS Determination, Form SS-8
        • Misclassified Workers Can File Social Security Tax Form
        • Salespeople As Contractors
        • Sample Response to CO Unemployment Claim
        • Statutory Employee and NonEmployees
        • Tax Court's Checklist
        • Type of Relationship
      • LLC and S-Corps (superseded)

        • As a one-person show, should I still form an LLC? An S-Corp?
        • Automobiles and LLCs, S Corps (superseded)
        • Can I call my 1099 other income which avoids employment taxes?
        • Determining the S-Corp Payroll Amount
        • Estimated Tax Payments, Withholdings Issues for an S-Corp
        • How do I convert my LLC to an S-Corp?
        • How does an LLC or S-Corp's income affect my taxes?
        • If the S-Corp taxation is what I ultimately want, should I form an LLC or C-Corp?
        • Is there a way to avoid Self-Employment tax?
        • Should I convert my LLC to an S-Corp (Sub-S Election)?
        • Should I form an LLC with my spouse?
        • The S-Corp Grind, Operational Hassles
        • The Zero Dollar Paycheck
        • What are the operational hassles of an S-Corp LLC?
        • What is an Accountable Plan?
        • The Money Trail for S-Corp Elections
        • 185 Reasons NOT to S-Corp, Downsides to S-Corp Election
      • Can I call my 1099 other income which avoids employment taxes?
      • Can I deduct country club dues as a business expense?
      • Can I deduct internet expenses?
      • Can I deduct my cell phone charges?
      • Health Care Expenses, Premiums, HRAs, HSAs - Section 105
      • Hobby Versus Business Article
      • How can I avoid or reduce Self-Employment (SE) taxes?
      • If I am a self-employed ExPat, what taxes am I responsible for?
      • If my employer provides a cell phone, is that income?
      • LLCs and S-Corps
      • Retirement Planning within an S-Corp
      • S-Corp Hard Money Facts, Net Savings
      • Turn Your Vacation Into a Tax Write Off
      • What are tax issues with an LLC owning a rental property?
      • What are the rules on a home office deduction?
      • What business or corporate expenses can I deduct?
      • What do I do with a 1099-K?
      • What is the difference between a hobby and a business?
      • What is the difference between an LLC, S-Corp and a C-Corp?
      • Why can't I deduct health insurance premiums?
  • Archive

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Distributing Profits, Multiple Owners

Created OnJuly 11, 2021
UpdatedOctober 17, 2021
byJason Watson, CPA
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By Jason Watson, CPA
Posted Sunday, July 11, 2021

S Corp shareholders are distributed profits as a percentage of ownership whereas multi-member LLC’s use an Operating Agreement. Electing S Corp status in certain situations can create headaches for silent partner or angel investor situations and other non-traditional ownership structures.

Fluctuating Income Splitting

Recall in a previous chapter, an S Corp election can be problematic for partnerships or multi-member LLCs who have an Eat What You Kill arrangement. For example, WCG has a client where the entity was comprised of two insurance sales agents. They created a multi-member limited liability company to share in some of the costs and to gain some economies of scale by working together. After common expenses were paid, the Operating Agreement distributed remaining profits as a percentage of revenue generated by each of the partners. So, one year could be 60-40 and the next year could be 45-55. This worked fine with no problems.

However, if this multi-member LLC elected to be taxed as an S corporation the arrangement blows up since shareholder distributions must be made on a pro-rata basis of ownership. In using the above example, an insurance agent might be a 50% shareholder but should only receive 40% of the distributions according to the income split agreement. This is no bueno which is Spanish for no bueno.

Here is why this is a problem-

Net Business Income 100,000
Batman Robin
Beginning Basis 5,000 5,000
Apportioned Income 50,000 50,000
Ending Basis 55,000 55,000
Shareholder Distributions 60,000 40,000
Ending Basis -5,000 15,000

In this example, Batman is receiving 60% of the distributions as a 50% shareholder. The negative ending basis cannot happen without ugly consequences in S Corps (we call this a shareholder distribution in excess of shareholder basis which causes a capital gains tax event).

s corporation multi member llc

You could solve this by changing salaries- however this usually creates unnecessary additional payroll tax burdens in the attempt to equalize the income. Let’s say you have to pay Batman $15,000 more in salary to “equalize” the eat what you kill income split. This would cause about $2,000 in additional payroll taxes to be paid unnecessarily. Furthermore, the equalization calculation is circular since as you increase wages for one shareholder it reduces the remaining income for both shareholders. Yuck.

A more elegant way to solve this problem, as mentioned in our chapter dedicated to customized entity structures, is to simply create two more S corporations who are 50-50 members in the multi-member LLC. The Operating Agreement will still dictate the pro-rata share of distributions on a fluctuating basis yet the ultimate income is sheltered by the taxation of an S Corp. We did this in the insurance agency example, and each insurance sales agent was 100% owner of his or her respective S Corp.

Here is that schematic again from a previous chapter (there are all kinds of good stuff in there).

Minority Shareholders

Similar problems occur with minority shareholders or silent investors. The author, Jason Watson, served on a jury trial in 2003 when 50 Cent was singing In Da Club. An S corporation was formed with three people. One owner was a 10% shareholder, while the other two were split evenly as a husband and wife team. Not looking good from the start.

The minority shareholder, the 10% guy, was constructively ousted from the daily operations of the business. He was not paid a salary. He did not receive any money from the business. Distributions were not made to any shareholder, but the husband and wife team paid themselves a salary and used expense reimbursements as a way to funnel money out.

The business began earning money, lots of money, and the minority shareholder was getting K-1s showing taxable income of several thousands of dollars. Good right? No. Not good. He had to report taxable income, but never saw any money in the form of a shareholder distribution. The husband and wife team were upset too since they could not take distributions without having to pay the minority shareholder. No one was willing to budge.

Sidebar: Had this entity had a strong Operating Agreement which forced distributions, minority problems can be avoided. One of the provisions we advocate for when working with attorneys is to establish a cash reserve (working capital) for operations and then distribute 40% of the remaining amount once a year. This forces the entity to at least cover the shareholders’ typical tax obligation associated with the K-1 income.

Jason Watson, CPA, is a Senior Partner of WCG, Inc., a boutique yet progressive tax and
consultation firm located in Colorado and South Dakota serving clients worldwide.


Jason Watson CPA LinkedIn     Jason Watson CPA Email

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