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You are here: Home > Taxpayers Guide to LLCs and S Corps > Chap 2 - Customized Entity Structures > Parent-Child Arrangement (Income Flows “Down”)

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  • Taxpayers Guide to LLCs and S Corps

    • Introduction

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      • Progressive Updates
      • Introduction Disclaimer
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      • Book Introduction
      • Quick Reference 2021
      • Quick Reference 2022
    • Chap 1 - Business Entities, LLCs

      • Basic Business Entities
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      • S Corp Versus LLC
      • LLC Popularity (Hype)
      • Formation of an LLC or S Corp
      • Nevada Fallacy of an LLC
    • Chap 2 - Customized Entity Structures

      • Your Spouse as a Partner (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
      • Family Partners
      • Holding Company and Operating Company
      • Parent-Child Arrangement (Income Flows "Up")
      • Parent-Child Arrangement (Income Flows "Down")
      • Multi-Member LLC That Issues Invoices
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      • State Apportionment with Multiple Entities
      • California Multi-Member LLC S Corp Twist
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      • Another Employee Ownership Situation
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      • Using a Trust in Your Formation Considerations
      • Operating Agreements
      • Exit Plans, Business Succession
      • Liability Protection Fallacy of an LLC
      • Charging Orders
      • Using a Self-Directed IRA to Buy a Rental, Start A Business
    • Chap 3 - S Corporation Benefits

      • Avoiding or Reducing Self-Employment SE Taxes
      • Tax Savings with Health Insurance
      • S Corp Hard Money Facts, Net Savings
      • Officer Compensation with Solo 401k Plan Deferral
      • W-2 Converted to 1099
      • Net Investment Income, Medicare Surtax and S Corps
      • Three Types of Income
    • Chap 4 - The 185 Reasons to Not Have an S Corp or LLC

      • Chapter 4 Introduction
      • Additional Accounting Costs
      • Additional Payroll Taxes
      • SEP IRA Limitations
      • Trapped Assets
      • Distributing Profits, Multiple Owners
      • Other W-2 Income
      • State Business Taxes (Not Just Income Taxes)
      • Deducting Losses
      • Distributions in Excess of Shareholder Basis
      • Stock Classes
      • Vesting and Expanding Ownership
      • Bad Loans to the S Corp
      • Social Security Basis
      • Payroll Taxes on Children
      • C Corp to S Corp Problems
      • Going Concern
      • Recap of S Corp Downsides
      • Growing Business, Debt Service
    • Chap 5 - State Nexus Problems

      • Chapter 5 Introduction
      • Chapter 5 Disclaimer
      • Wayfair Case Part 1
      • Nexus Theory
      • Constitutional and Legislative Standards
      • Sales and Use Tax, Income Tax
      • Physical and Economic Presence, Nexus Attached
      • Wayfair Case Part 2
      • Services and Tangible Personal Property (TPP)
      • Costs of Performance, Market-Based Approach
      • Allocation and Throwback
      • FBA, Drop Shipments, Trailing Nexus Revisited
      • Recap of State Tax Issues
      • State Tax Issues and Nexus
    • Chap 6 - S Corporation Election

      • Formation (Election) of an S-Corp
      • Electing S-Corp Filing Status, Retroactive for 2022
      • Another Option, Dormant S Corp
      • Missing Payroll, Now What
      • Mid-Year Payroll
      • Nuts and Bolts of the S Corp Election
      • Ineffective S Corp Elections
      • S Corp Equity Section
      • Terminating S Corp Election
      • Distributed Assets
      • 5 Year Rule
      • Life Cycle of an S Corporation
    • Chap 7 - Section 199A Deduction Analysis

      • Section 199A S Corp Considerations
      • Calculating the Qualified Business Income Deduction
      • Section 199A Defining Terms
      • Specified Service Trade or Business (SSTB) Definitions
      • Trade or Business of Performing Services as an Employee
      • Services or Property Provided to an SSTB
      • Section 199A Deduction Decision Tree
      • Section 199A Reasonable Compensation
      • Section 199A Pass-Thru Salary Optimization
      • Cost of Increasing Shareholder Salary
      • Section 199A Rental Property Deduction
      • Negative Qualified Business Income
      • Qualified Property Anti-Abuse
      • Aggregation of Multiple Businesses
      • Section 199A W-2 Safe Harbors
      • Additional Section 199A Reporting on K-1
      • Section 199A Frequently Asked Questions
    • Chap 8 - Section 199A Examples and Comparisons

      • S Corp Section 199A Deduction Examples
      • Section 199A Side by Side Comparisons
      • Section 199A Basic Comparisons
      • Section 199A Health Insurance Comparison
      • Section 199A 200k Comparison
      • Section 199A 250k Comparison
      • Section 199A Specified Service Business Comparison Part 1
      • Section 199A Specified Service Business Comparison Part 2
      • Section 199A Phaseout
      • Section 199A Recap
      • Section 199A Actual Tax Returns Comparison
    • Chap 9 - Reasonable Shareholder Salary

      • IRS S Corp Stats
      • Reasonable S Corp Salary Theory
      • IRS Revenue Rulings and Fact Sheet 2008-25
      • Tax Court Cases for Reasonable Salary
      • Risk Analysis to Reasonable Shareholder Salary
      • Reasonable Salary Labor Data
      • Assembled Workforce or Developed Process Effect
      • RCReports
      • W-2 Converted to 1099 Reasonable Salary
      • S Corp Salary Starting Point
      • Multiple Shareholders Payroll Split
      • Additional S Corp Salary Considerations
      • Reasonable Salary Recap
    • Chap 10 - Operating Your S Corp

      • Chapter 10 Introduction
      • Costs of Operating an S Corp
      • New S Corp Puppy, What Do I Do Now
      • Accounting Method
      • 1099-NEC Issued to Your SSN
      • Take Money Out of the S Corp
      • Processing S Corp Payroll
      • Taking Shareholder Distributions
      • Reclassify Shareholder Distributions
      • Accountable Plan Expense Reimbursements
      • Accountable Plan Requirements
      • Shareholder Distributions as Reimbursements
      • S Corp Tax Return Preparation
      • Distributions in Excess of Basis
      • Minimize Tax or Maximize Value (Economic Benefit)
      • Tracking Fringe Benefits
      • Other Tricks of the Trade with S Corps
      • Adding Your Spouse to Payroll
      • Chap 10 - Comingling of Money
    • Chap 11 - Tax Deductions, Fringe Benefits

      • Chapter 11 Introduction
      • Four Basics to Warm Up To
      • Section 199A Deductions – Pass Through Tax Breaks
      • 185 Business Deductions You Cannot Take
      • Depreciation
      • Small Business Tax Deductions Themes
      • Value of a Business Tax Deduction
      • Deductions the IRS Cannot Stand
      • Automobiles and LLCs, S Corps
      • Business Owned Automobile
      • Section 179 and Bonus Depreciation
      • You Own the Automobile, Get Reimbursed By The Mile
      • You Own the Automobile, Take Mileage Deduction
      • You Own the Automobile, Lease Back to Your Company
      • Automobile Decision Tree
      • Home Office Deduction
      • Tax-Free Rental of Your Home
      • Tax Home
      • Business Travel Deduction
      • Deducting Business Meals
      • Sutter Rule
      • Cohan Rule
      • Capital Leases versus Operating Leases
      • Putting Your Kids on the Payroll
      • Educational Assistance with an S-Corp - Section 127
      • Summary of Small Business Tax Deductions
      • Comingling of Money
      • Reducing Taxes
    • Chap 12 - Retirement Planning

      • Retirement Planning Within Your Small Business
      • Self Employed Retirement Plan Basics
      • Retirement Questions to Ask
      • Tax Savings and Tax Deferrals
      • Using a 401k in Your Small Business Retirement Options
      • The Owners-Only 401k Plan
      • Having Staff with a Solo 401k Plan
      • Self-Directed 401k Plans
      • Traditional 401k (A Company Sponsored Plan)
      • 401k Plan Safe Harbor Provision
      • 401k Plans with Roth Option (Roth 401k)
      • Two 401k Plans
      • Rolling Old 401k Plans or IRAs into Your Small Business 401k Plan
      • 401k Loans and Life Insurance
      • 401k Plans and Roth IRA Conversions
      • Turbo Charged 401k Plans
      • SIMPLE 401k
      • SEP IRA
      • SEP IRA, Roth IRAs and the Roth Conversion
      • Controlled Groups
      • Owner Only 401k Plans in MMLLC Environment
      • Non-Qualified Deferred Compensation Plan
      • Exotic Stuff
      • Expatriates or Expat Tax Deferral Planning
      • Small Business Retirement Planning Recap
      • Personal Defined Benefit Plan
    • Epilogue

      • WCG Fee Structure
      • More About WCG
      • Consultative Approach
      • Core Competencies
      • No BS
      • Expectations of Our Clients
      • Final Words
      • Tax Consultation Business Advising, S Corp Consult
    • Chap xx - Health Care

      • Disclosure and Updates
      • Gaming the HSA System
      • Health Care Summary
      • Health Savings Accounts (HSAs)
      • Long-Term Care
      • Multiple Employees
      • One Person Show or Husband-Wife Team, S Corporation
      • Section 105 Health Reimbursement Arrangement (HRA)
      • Section 125 Cafeteria Plans and Flex Spending (FSA)
      • Sole Proprietors and Single Member LLCs
    • Chap yy - Business Valuations, Sale, Exit Planning

      • Business Valuation Techniques
      • Buy-Sell Agreements
      • Deal Structure
      • Debt Service
      • Exit Plans, Succession
      • Purchase Price Allocation
    • Chap zz - Other S Corp Thoughts

      • 1099 Income as Other Income, No Self-Employment (SE) Taxes
      • Audit Rates and Risks with an S-Corp
      • Recap of S-Corps
      • Rental Losses with an S-Corp
      • Rentals Owned by an LLC Fallacy
      • W-2 or 1099-MISC That Is The Question
  • Expat and Expatriate KB

    • Expat FAQs

      • Are there any downsides to claiming the foreign earned income exclusion?
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      • How do fluctuating currency values affect my taxes?
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      • What amount can I deduct for foreign earned income exclusion?
      • What happens if my host country has a form of social security?
      • What is a tax home or abode, and how do they relate to each other?
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      • What is the bona fide residence test?
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  • Rental Property KB

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      • Rentals Owned by an LLC Fallacy
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    • Real Estate Pros

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      • If I meet the 750-hour test, do I also meet the 500-hour material participation test?
      • What activities count and don't count?
      • What are some of the IRS tricks to deny my real estate professional designation?
      • What are some of the tax court cases for real estate professionals?
      • What are the general tests for material participation?
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      • What is the definition of real estate professional?
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  • Other Tax Information KB

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      • Are Educational Savings Accounts Worth It
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      • IRAs and Savings Bonds To Help With Higher Education Costs
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    • Homes and Real Estate FAQs

      • Can I deduct the loss on my primary residence?
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      • How does a Federal Disaster affect my casualty loss?
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      • The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act and Debt Cancellation
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    • Medical, Health Insurance

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    • Mortgages, Bad Debts

      • Can I deduct a bad debt on my tax return?
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    • General Tax Questions

      • Can I deduct internet expenses?
      • Can I deduct my cell phone charges?
      • If my employer provides a cell phone, is that income?
      • Tax Brackets Misconceptions- Should I earn more money?
      • What is the marriage penalty and how does it affect our tax returns?
  • Small Business KB

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      • Hobby Versus Business

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        • Salespeople As Contractors
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        • Statutory Employee and NonEmployees
        • Tax Court's Checklist
        • Type of Relationship
      • LLC and S-Corps (superseded)

        • As a one-person show, should I still form an LLC? An S-Corp?
        • Automobiles and LLCs, S Corps (superseded)
        • Can I call my 1099 other income which avoids employment taxes?
        • Determining the S-Corp Payroll Amount
        • Estimated Tax Payments, Withholdings Issues for an S-Corp
        • How do I convert my LLC to an S-Corp?
        • How does an LLC or S-Corp's income affect my taxes?
        • If the S-Corp taxation is what I ultimately want, should I form an LLC or C-Corp?
        • Is there a way to avoid Self-Employment tax?
        • Should I convert my LLC to an S-Corp (Sub-S Election)?
        • Should I form an LLC with my spouse?
        • The S-Corp Grind, Operational Hassles
        • The Zero Dollar Paycheck
        • What are the operational hassles of an S-Corp LLC?
        • What is an Accountable Plan?
        • The Money Trail for S-Corp Elections
        • 185 Reasons NOT to S-Corp, Downsides to S-Corp Election
      • Can I call my 1099 other income which avoids employment taxes?
      • Can I deduct country club dues as a business expense?
      • Can I deduct internet expenses?
      • Can I deduct my cell phone charges?
      • Health Care Expenses, Premiums, HRAs, HSAs - Section 105
      • Hobby Versus Business Article
      • How can I avoid or reduce Self-Employment (SE) taxes?
      • If I am a self-employed ExPat, what taxes am I responsible for?
      • If my employer provides a cell phone, is that income?
      • LLCs and S-Corps
      • Retirement Planning within an S-Corp
      • S-Corp Hard Money Facts, Net Savings
      • Turn Your Vacation Into a Tax Write Off
      • What are tax issues with an LLC owning a rental property?
      • What are the rules on a home office deduction?
      • What business or corporate expenses can I deduct?
      • What do I do with a 1099-K?
      • What is the difference between a hobby and a business?
      • What is the difference between an LLC, S-Corp and a C-Corp?
      • Why can't I deduct health insurance premiums?
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Parent-Child Arrangement (Income Flows “Down”)

Created OnJuly 7, 2021
UpdatedOctober 15, 2021
byJason Watson, CPA
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By Jason Watson, CPA
Posted Tuesday, July 6, 2021

Another thought along these lines involves a multi-member LLC where you and another non-spouse partner are the members. Later in another chapter you’ll learn that one of the limitations of an S corporation is that distributions must be made in the same percentage as ownership. So, if you are 50-50 with another shareholder, distributions must also be 50-50.

For now, let’s backup for a moment. If this multi-member LLC was not taxed as an S corporation, the Operating Agreement could dictate a different schedule of distributions. For example, you and another insurance agent team up. But you want an Eat What You Kill revenue model. In this case, you could be 50-50 partners from an ownership perspective, but have the splitting (sharing) of net ordinary business income after expenses and deductions, and eventual distributions fluctuate based on the production of each insurance agent. Elegant. Simple.

You S Corp elect this thing, and now it blows up. Regardless of the production or income splitting detailed in your Operating Agreement, or whatever, distributions must be 50-50 since that is the ownership percentage among the two shareholders. Said in another way, the net business income is assigned to each shareholder purely based on ownership percentages and cannot be changed easily.

You could always abandon the S corporation election idea, but you are a taxpaying citizen and want the best of both worlds. You want to save on self-employment taxes as well as having a fluctuating income split. What can be done?

The first solution is to equalize with salaries. Let’s say the revenue split based on production for the current year should be 55-45 but you are 50-50 owners. Salaries could be adjusted so that the “55% earner” obtains more of the available cash. This is an easy solution and works reasonably well when the net business income split closely resembles the ownership (or distribution) split.

But if the divergence between net business income and ownership grows too much then equalizing through salaries becomes problematic since the increase in salary for the “high earner” becomes too expensive; keep in mind, and we will reiterate this again later, every $10,000 in salary costs about $1,500 in payroll taxes. Therefore, if an unnecessarily high salary is needed to equalize net business income splits between S Corp owners you might be paying too much in payroll taxes.

What’s plan B then? Easy!

We create three entities. A holding company that is a multi-member LLC (MMLLC), with each member being an S corporation. Each S corporation is owned 100% by each principal involved. Stay with us on this one. The following example shows three S corporations as members of the MMLLC, but just ignore one side if you are a two-person show.

s corp multimember llcThe MMLLC is really a funnel. All revenue goes in, all common expenses are paid out such as internet, copier lease, admin functions, etc., and an Operating Agreement dictates how the distributions are to be handled. K-1s are issued to the members which happen to be S corporations. And then those S corporations pay a reasonable salary to its respective sole shareholder and distribute the remainder.

Let’s break this down with an example. $250,000 is earned by the MMLLC after expenses. S Corp 1 receives $125,000 according to the Operating Agreement (yet it remains a 1/3 owner). S Corp 1 pays out a reasonable salary of $55,000 and distributes $70,000. S Corp 2 receives $60,000 and S Corp 3 receives the balance… and both S corporations pay out a reasonable salary and distribute the remainder.

There are some excellent benefits with this arrangement beyond the income splitting and saving of self-employment taxes. Each S corporation is independent. In referencing the previous schematic, there are some intangible yet valuable advantages-

  • Fred could buy whatever business car he wanted. Sure, the MMLLC could establish an allowance that everyone is allowed to spend, and any amount about that is augmented by the members but that gets messy real quick and loses significant tax efficiency.
  • Velma could work from home and reimburse herself for a home office while others choose not to. Also, consider that Fred and Velma might have different sized home offices and associated expenses, and by leveraging the reimbursement at the S Corps level, you remove office politics and equalization issues.
  • Shaggy could rent an office since his place is… well… a doghouse of sorts and he needs some space to work.

Each S corporation can run expenses through as it sees fit without upsetting the other business partners. For example, you want to attend conferences in Las Vegas. Another example would be adding a child or spouse to payroll. Each S Corp operates independently and can do what it wants with its money (with some minor rules such as 401k plans).

We see this arrangement commonly in attorneys, medical groups (surgery groups, physicians, doctors, anesthesiologists, nurse anesthetists, etc.), insurance agents and financial advisors. It is very common in entities where the net business income is not shared equally, but rather on some formula or agreement.

401k plans in this situation is tough since it is a controlled group (technically what ERISA and the IRS call an Affiliated Service Group). More information can be found in a later chapter on controlled groups, and how retirement planning within this scheme works. This is a commonly overlooked problem with this arrangement; proceed with caution with your 401k plan administrator (spoiler alert: you can have separate 401k plans if you have only owner employees).

Wait! Before you blast off and create the above arrangement, this has fallen out of favor. There is another version of this where the MMLLC is owned by the individuals rather than the S corporations. Why? Let’s find out!

Jason Watson, CPA, is a Senior Partner of WCG, Inc., a boutique yet progressive tax and
consultation firm located in Colorado and South Dakota serving clients worldwide.


Jason Watson CPA LinkedIn     Jason Watson CPA Email

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Although WCG Inc. has made every reasonable effort to ensure that the information provided is accurate, WCG Inc., and its partners, managers and staff, make no warranties, expressed or implied, on the information provided on this Site, or about any other website which you may access through this Site. The user accepts the information as is and assumes all responsibility for the use of such information. WCG Inc. also does not warrant that this Site, various services provided through this Site, and any information, software or other material downloaded from this Site, will be uninterrupted, error-free, omission-free or free of viruses or other harmful components.